Mouze, we talked a little about this yesterday but I want to expound on it a little more.

Do I think we're living in sin by listening to secular music? No. Do I think it's good and healthy for us? No.

To me, there are songs that aren't Christian that are still clean and okay to listen to.... HOWEVER... it's kinda like the difference between eating pizza or chicken and vegies.

You want to get in shape and feel good about your physical health? Then you have to excercise, eat right and be careful about what you're putting in. If you sit on your rear and eat pizza all day... well... get ready for the looseness! In the same way, if you want a healthy relationship with the Lord, you'd better be careful as to what you're pouring into your heart! The Bible says, God inhabits the praises of His people, not a good clean country western song. Me personally, I want God around ALL the time! I need Him more than I need a "good clean secular song".

Is it okay... yes, is it good for you... nope.

Dr. RC Sproul has strong feelings about what is worship music, but he has also talked of God comunicating through all things in this world, forgive me he had a theological term for that I can't recall at the moment. But he pointed out that especially through the arts, music, books, paintings that God is in touch with us, granted the Devil has his hands in it as well, but with the Holy Spirit it is quickly brought to our attention if the Evil one is in it......Would it not be easy to slide into legalism in our zeal? I must put forth that I love many forms of music, such as ambient, smooth jazz, some rock, some pop, even some country! The Lord uses some artist with them not even being aware of it. So I vote for all forms of music, you just have to be aware!

I am torn on this subject. I see (and feel) enourmous validity in all the previous points. Myles and I have spoken in the past year about my political feelings (to use them as an example). I was in a very dangerous place with them spiritually. Since then I came to a very clear reality in the path of being in the world and not of it. This removed alot of the worldly passions associated with my political views and I was able to see through the distractions for the real nitty-gritty. God, and thinking in spiritual context vice worldly justice changed me. I still keep close tabs on political situations, but with God at the forefront of my thought processes, it is easy to keep myself grounded. The reason I say this is that, we are against the grain of the world. To Satan we are accomplises to the thief. To some degree we must maintain an awareness of the world, but not be lost to it. There is a mixture that keeps us aware, but strong in the Word. I believe that it is different for each of us. As we grow, that position will change. Some of us may dive fully girded in the Armor of God into the world, others may hold back (and we need them to do this lest we near too close to the brink and loose sight of Grace). I assure you that my thoughts will change on the topic of secular music several times until my time on earth is done. Having said that, I am a shamed of the fact that I don't devote a specific quantity of my listening time to Christian tunes, and I don't have an appreciable amount of it in the old Ipod. I am going to have to fix that. Anybody have any good suggestions? I have been listening to alot of MachineHead (probably not the best for me in high doses).

First off, I knew this one would get your attention Monk Here is what brought it up. Music effects me to the core, maybe more than most. That said I had found myself listening to secular music again...and soon after began sinking into a "pit" of anger, depression...etc. It was like a gate was opened, and a tidal wave came bursting through. Christian music seems to tighten my focus on God where secular shifts my interest to "the world."
Monk, you are very right in this having the potential to become legalistic; I was afraid of it coming off that way when I put it up. So let me specify this; will you go to Hell for listening to secular music...no. But, is it spiritually healthier to listen to Christian music...absolutely. As I have said music effects me a little more than most people for some reason, as up until recently TV and Movies did not effect me at all, but I find lately they have been.
The more God I put around me...the closer I get to Him...and the further I get away from the world...the less I feel it has to say.
Jason, I could tell you so many great bands out there buddy! The Christian industry has came so far since we were involved in it! I may open another Topic on Christian music!

I agree, christian music has grown and I enjoy it........and I agree also about tv & movies for the most part are "disturbing". But come on! There is wothwhile music in the secular area, that doesn't bring about anger & depression if you filter it through our Lords' eyes.

I just know "for me"...that is what happens, I was mainly wondering if anyone else felt God urging them this way. I'm not telling anyone they have to not listen to secular music, just as I would not yell at anyone for eating Cheescake (I love the cheescake by the way) but health wise there are better choices out there. Maybe God is just dealing with me on some level right now....maybe I am not strong enough to Listen to secular music, as an obese person should not eat a cheescake.

There is one scripture that has been popping into my head for over a year now, dealing with Music, TV, Movies and so on. And it is really a driving force behind what I am saying here.

Quote:

1 Corinthians 13 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned , and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. Charity suffereth long , and is kind ; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself , is not puffed up , Doth not behave itself unseemly , seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked , thinketh no evil; Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. Charity never faileth : but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail ; whether there be tongues, they shall cease ; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away . For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come , then that which is in part shall be done away . When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly ; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known . And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

The scripture in whole is getting at as a (spiritual) child I still desired the things of the world, not that I was still fully a part of the world Just that I still loved it...to a point. But as God began to reveal how majestic he is, what he is, who he is, I began to see the world for what it is really for...When we are of the world we create things for ourselves, to glorify ourselves. As we begin to pull away from the world we start to rertrain our thoughts on God. And when we do this, more of the kingdom is revealed. As the world views begin to fade, the "Dark Glass" begins to shatter. My thoughts are, the more of the world I give up...freely...without continuing to desire them, will my understanding be opened even more?

And reading that first part of Francis Chan's book, I started thinking...if this is what God actually is...how can anything of the world even hold weight? How can I sit, and not think on God 24/7? How can I not praise him 24/7? How can I not bring Glory to him 24/7? How can I not be on my knees continuosly 24/7? Believe me Monk, this is an issue that has haunted me throughout most of my Christian life, and its not an easy thing for me to deal with...I really like many of the old secular bands I used to listen to. But on another level, I feel that they have nothing to say...so I loose interest quickly and get bored. And I agree that if I filter the secular music through God than what you get wouldnt be bad..but you have to understand...that is what I have been doing over this past year... ...and there is nothing left!

Great talk Monk, thanks for challenging...you made me have to back track and truly meditate on this, and you helped me to work it out in my head. ....Love ya Dad!

Herugrim, I think you really do a good job of pulling out how music has such a huge impact on YOU and varies with each and every one of us. My wife would probably fall into the same category as you. She can't hear music without listening to every detail and word and putting the message together. Myself, I have heard songs many times and when my wife asks me, "Do you hear what that song is saying?" I can honestly say no, I just enjoy the beat. I know people who can hear the first few notes of an old song and tell you who sang it, what year and so on. I couldn't tell you who sings anything......well maybe who sings Amarillo By Morning.

Mo does a good job of showing us the "health" aspect of music. I have a brother in law that can eat any amount of any food at any time and NEVER gain a pound. Pizza, cheesecake, it don't matter. He has a great metabolism or resistance to food. I on the other hand just have to look at food and can gain weight. However, there is a hidden impact that takes place in my brother in law when it comes to food. He has cholesterol issues and triglyceride issues. While his issues are less visible on the outside there is evidence of consistent bad choices taking place in his heart. So many times we use "outward" evidence as the truth even in our own lives while in reality it is our heart that matters.

If I'm being completely honest I can and will relate to this very topic. I used to listen to Christian music all of the time and my relationship with God was so intimate and sweet. I then started listening to some other types of music and over time I eventually was listening to mostly secular music and less Chrisitan music. Well I noticed that my quiet times were few and far between. Less prayer time. Bored in church because I wasn't being entertained. Going to church to just go through the motions. In fact I didn't want to read this topic because my FLESH resisted the sight of the title. To even be more honest....because I was listening to secular music it became very appealing to my son and now his taste for Christian music is bitter. I have not only the battle of my own to fight, but have to change the influence in my sons life. I heard a pastor share once that if you wanted to boil a frog to death you would put him in a pan of cold water and turn up the temperature one degree every day. He eventually becomes accustomed to his environment and eventually dies without even knowing it.

When we drift into other venues of music we are like the frog in the pan. We can be killing ourselves without even knowing it. Like my brother in law...he thought everything was great with what his food choices were because "outwardly" he was just fine but inside he was dying.

Christian music honors and glorifies God. Secular music honors and glorifies our flesh. Without God we first die on the inside (our heart) and eventually die completely.

One last thing....I remember the first time I tried butter. I didn't like it at all. It wasn't that it wasn't good it was because I had never been exposed to it. Once I kept trying it I eventually developed a taste and like for butter and eat it now. I no longer eat margarine, but eat butter. Christian music may be bitter to you and you may not like the sound of it. It's not becuase it isn't good it is becuase you need more exposure to it. There are great Christian choices of Jazz, soul, rap, r&b, rock, metal and etc. I would encourage you to visit Mardel and begin trying the Christian music way. Like butter you will eventually develop a taste for it and will love it. Lots of people would say that the talent level is lacking in the Christian world and just isn't good music. My response to that would be......your flesh is resisting you. It doesn't want to lose the praise and honor that it has been receiving and give it to God almighty.

I know I got on a soap box, but honestly what you just read is what God was speaking to me as I typed. As of yesterday I was listening to lots of secular music. Because I opened this thread I have been convicted to change my diet concerning music. It starts now for my family. I pray we all have an appetite for more of God.

Be blessed,

Jared

Here's a thought... and someone else may have mentioned this already but I don't know for sure because there was too much already posted to read it all before I could keep myself from responding.

So I'm just curious, if there is definitely good music that glorifies God and definitely bad music that does not... what about that music that doesn't necessarily do either??? I tend to be an it is either black or it is white kind of person. Doesn't everything in existence, in one way or another, promote the Father, or Satan? Isn't it one or the other? And if there is indeed a grey area for music wouldn't that be indicative that there could be a grey area in endless other facets of life?... following that train of thought, we could end up living life being able to do whatever we want with no consequence.

Ok ok, I may have gone to the extreme really fast, but you get my thought.

Seems that everything I see around me is either for good or for evil... is it not??? Challenge me...

Here's basically what we've come to, Brother. Does it draw you closer to God or pull you away? If neither, then it is what it is but I'd rather be drawing closer at all times and if I can't do that then I'd rather be drawing closer more than I'm falling backward.

This is where it's at to me. Will you go to hell for listening to "all" secular music? No. However, will you grow closer to our sweet Jesus while from listening to it? No. People say that their heroes in the Bible were people like Paul, Peter, David, Moses, Abraham, Isaac, Joseph... not to mention Jesus! I will use the others as Jesus was and is perfect and no one else could be. The other heroes were who they were because they chose not to stay where they were at but to press on and closer into Christ. Their focus was not on the way of the world but on the goal that Christ had set before them.

This is what it ultimately comes down to. Do you want to grow? Do you want to mature in your faith? PRESS into the things that Jesus loves!

Blessed be the Lord!

Brother, we've both witnessed each others weaknesses. No we're witnessing God overcoming them. He is so good and worthy of all our praise and I am thankful to Him that he would choose to use us even through it all! We shall press on for the love of Jesus!

While running group homes for over 25 years my wife and I learned some very valuable lessons. One was that if we allowed the troubled kids to listen to any music they wanted we made no progress with them. Due to regulations we could not tell the kids that they could not listen to secular music. So we made a rule that they could not listen to anything that promoted drugs, sex, Satanism, violence or rebellion. Guess what they could not find anything to listen to except Christian music, we provided a lot of it, and we began leading them to the lord. Many times they would try to tell us that there was nothing against our rules in a song they were listening to. We had to find the words and read them because usually you could not understand them in the music. Most of the time if we asked for the jacket cover they just gave in and gave up the music. As usual one of my favorite scriptures applies again.

Do not be deceived God is not mocked what ever a man sows that will he reap, if he sows to the flesh he will reap destruction, if he sows to the spirit he will reap everlasting life.

GIGO garbage in garbage out.

Is it sinful to go anyplace besides church (Excepting strip clubs, bars, ect)
To read anything besides the bible?
To go underwater without being baptized?

I'm not saying that you can do whatever you want and not sin, I'm saying not EVERYTHING not God-related is sinful
However, if you feel convicted, which seems to be your case, I wouldn't listen to it =)

Hey Emily,

I get the jest of your point. I would like to say that I believe as Christians we have become too consumed with what convicts "US". I would encourage all of us to become more focused on what hurts the heart of Jesus. I know that in my past when I was in night clubs and hanging with the wrong crowd I would find myself not being convicted because I had become jaded to what hurt the heart of Jesus. 

I think a more pleasing way to approach music, movies, entertainment views and etc would be to consider if in fact what we are about to do would offend God and not us. 

Would Jesus mind if I went swimming? Absolutely not in fact he might want to join me. 

Would Jesus like to join me and watch Harry Potter together and be entertained by witchcraft fantasy?  I doubt Jesus would care to waste his time watching a movie that portrayed spell casting and witchcraft as a contradiction to His living word the Bible. 

Would Jesus like to cruise around town and listen to Eminem? I mean it's great music with a great beat.  I don't think Jesus would like to cruise around town to the lyrics of murder, adultery, etc. 

You see the examples listed above could easily be the way of some of our lives and while we may not be convicted of what we are doing; if we were to take our eyes off of ourselves and just ask if Jesus would be offended, hurt or grieved then we might all make some pretty good changes in our lives. 

We are called to be Jesus to others and to do all things pleasing to Him then we have to take on the mind of Him and refrain from the things that don't please Him, don't praise Him and don't exalt him. 

I don't say all of that in anticipation that you disagree. I say that in hopes that if someone needs freedom in that area of their life then they can pray and ask God to help them. 

Blessings,

Jared