Scott,

This verse reminds me of when Elijah confronted the prophets of Baal and they cut themselves to try and get the attention of their god. I believe this practice is part of the babylonian mystery religion that was founded at the tower of babel by Nimrod. I found an account in Nine Years Among the Indians where a boy who was captured at the age of 11 by the Apaches, describes what he saw when a war party returned. He describes how the women of the village, upon learning of the death of a family member, would slash themselves until the blood flowed freely, he said this was the most gruesome sight he saw while with the indians and he saw many people tortured and killed. This same mind set is at the root of the false doctrine of doing pennance which the Catholics teach, but often times I find myself with the same attitude even though it may be very subtle. As far as tattoo's (which I think is where you were headed) I have some thoughts but they will have to wait, I have company coming and need to mow the lawn!

Greg

Is this to be intrepreted to mean that you shouldn't get tattoo's that are in memoriam? There is much debate over this issue and I must admit that I have 5 at present time. I do have 1 of a butterfly that I got because my grandmother loved them so much, does that count? The other 4 are to celebrate moments in my life and I was planning on getting at least one more.

Thank you Scott, controversial and thought provoking

Scott and Christi,

Here's my two cents on tattoos; I read a book once by a Captain in the Navy SEAL's. He retired from the Navy and then asked to shadow a BUDS company through training. BUDS is the initial phase in training for a new SEAL, it is several months long and involves little sleep, all kinds of physical hardship and a lot of sloshing around in cold seawater. Typically, 120 or so men enter training and 15 or 20 might finish. It is voluntary training so if they want to quit all they have to do is ring a bell. This phase of the training is a "weeding" process, because the SEAL teams basically believe that SEAL's are born not made so they are just looking to see who has what it takes to join them. Many of the instructors have pet theories about how to predict who will make it and who will not, and they are continually revising and fine tuning their theories. This is mainly just done for fun and is not an official Navy policy or anything like that, but each individual instructor usually has his own ideas on what personality traits etc. will typically be an indicator of success. The theory that was most successful revolved around tattoos: the people with the largest, most prominent and greatest number of tattoos were the first to quit. Typically, the people that made it through had no tattoos or maybe a small inconspicuous one. What does all this mean? The author thought that it had to do with character i.e. trying to follow what every one else is doing instead of just being you and getting the job done. As a Christian we don't follow the world and we don't follow other people we follow God. With all things, it is a matter of the heart and only God can see a person's heart, if getting and having a tattoo is something that you are sharing with Jesus then their is nothing wrong with it, if not then it is sin. In my experience usually people get a tattoo to gain the approval or notoriety of other men, which is sin. Recently my oldest daughter asked to get a tattoo, my wife and I said that would be fine, but first she would have to find a new place to live! Seriously though, when I talked to her about it and peeled through all the layers she wanted it to please her peers. We also told her that when she was 70 she would have to explain to her grandchildren why the dolphin on her leg now looked like a manatee!

Greg

Greg, I like that...I agree that people should not get tattoos for peer approval. As a mother I've tried to keep all my tattoos in a place where they are usually covered. The only 2 that usually show are the one on my calf and the one on my foot and these only show in Summer. I wanted to get the tattoos for personal reasons so therefore thought they are mainly for me anyway so I should be able to cover them if I needed to attend an event or something where they may not be accepted. My family, especially my grandfather who is 77, disapproves for the most part. However, when my grandfather has something to say about my tattoos, he doesn't quote any sort of scripture or doctrine. I've asked him before why he has such a problem with them since he has one from the Navy and his reply to me is that his ship is the only one he has and he's a man. I don't think that your sex is a reason to have or not have one lol.

Anyway, I like this subject and all the thoughts and I especially love this site and how everyones opinions are so openly received without heated discussion

Christi...I really appreciate your honesty and forthright thoughts. I am wondering. Where are the rest of you guys who have tattoos????? I want to know what you think. I have some thoughts but I want to hear from people who have tattoos before I say anything! Come on you chickens!

Okay...FINE...

I have 6...yes 6 tattoos My first one was done, a Phoenix to represent my being "reborn" into Christ. I had become something new, stronger than before. My second was a...well Buster Bunny holding a sign that says "God Rules!" My third is a drawing I came up with from Golgotha, a scene of the cruxifiction. This one caused some controversy due to the way it looks. Picture the cross, with three skulls behind it, the center one larger than the two on the sides. Above the cross, a "ghost" coming from Jesus, representing him leaving his mortal body. The fourth I just added to the first. Now the last two, I took my daughters and had them place their hands and feet into finger paint and had the Tattoo guy slap them on my arm so in a sense they are always with me, and I with them.

Now, I can say that the Golgotha tattoo was a very good tool in ministry. When my band Dead Awakening was doing shows, or talking to kids, they flocked around me and always asked "What does that mean?" it opened the door to talk about the cross, Jesus, Forgiveness and Grace. Adults often looked down on me, but it disarmed the Lost, and drew Teens in. The tattoos here simply became a tool, and a statement that I am a Christian...so much that I have been marked to serve my God.

All of that said, I can understand what my man G. Senter is saying. When you do something to "cave in" to peer pressure it is very much a sign of weakness. But, as for me...I went very much against the norm of what everyone else was doing at the time...so I guess it all lfalls on the enviroment that you are in wether it be weakness or not...and is it something you actually wanted, or is it something you have been talked in to...

So, Myles....I guess my question is, "how does this Scripture fit in your opinion?" Is it under the law so it doesn't apply? Does it give a general example? I don't believe that we tithe today because it is law. I believe the New Testament principle is giving what the Holy Spirit leads....etc We did a forum on that. So my question is whether it is just void or is there something in the New Testament that deals with it. How did you make your decision to do the tattoos? What did you consider? This question comes up more and more. Since I don't have tattoos, I would like the perspective of people who have.

To be honest Sue, I really dont see it much different than the clothes you choose to wear, to pierce my ears or not to, what type of hair cut should I have...Now I may be in the wrong here, and do not recomend Tattoos to anyone...because it is a "Done Deal" once it is on you!

I have never really felt a "conviction" in it at all, I dont know if this is a good thing or bad. As to the Scripture, yes I think that was a law written for a specific people at a specific time. They were branding themselves with the markings of a false religion...and that is bad voodoo even today!

I agree with Myles as far as tattoos being the same for me as how I choose to dress or my style goes. I do have one tattoo that I regret now, my astrological sign, for obvious reasons. I have felt conviction for that one but like Myles said, once its there, its there. So, I guess I kinda look at it like it depends on the type of tattoo you want. You should make your choice wisely just as in anything else. You choose your clothing and speech and so on wisely so choose your markings wisely as well.

I personally can't stand the thought of getting a tattoo. I think that tattoos look cool on some people and not so much on others. I got into an argument with my son about a year ago because he was wanting a tattoo and I told him that as long as he is living in my house as a child then that is NOT an option. I still stand by my decision, but it was my argument that I think was lame. I too went back to the old testament scripture and showed him where is was NOT acceptable in the Bible. Over the past year I have really been convicted about how I used the Bible in my favor on this one. I think about how we teach about the new covenant and that the law was through Moses and that grace is through Jesus. There are so many examples that we teach on this principle....one being an eye for an eye......plucking your eye out if it causes you to sin....being stoned for your sin....and the list goes on. So many times we say that things are different because of Jesus and we aren't under the law. UNTIL....we need to manipulate someone into our way of thinking or point of view and then the Old Testament becomes so important. Again, my decision regarding my son getting a tattoo until he becomes an adult will NOT change. I do hope that teaching him to have a passionate relationship with Jesus will change his heart and desire but not my manipulation of scripture to get my way.

Oh and FYI...there are removal options available out there. My wife and I were house parents at a childrens home and had a boy get a tattoo put on after we told him it was not acceptable and there would be consequences. Well he thought that it couldn't be removed so he would just take the punishment because he would still have his tattoo. Little did he know that I called the dermatologist and they had the technology to remove the tattoo with lasers, but at a very high price. This young man had saved for four years about $1200 so that he could buy a car when he was 16. Guess how much the tattoo removal surgery was.....yep $1200. So he lost his tattoo and he had to pay to have it done.


Jared

Ok here's some perspective from someone who has a "bunch" of tattoo's. I have 11 total and a few are so big they can be considered to be a multiple tattoo's. I grew up in Southern California, going to the beach and skateboarding. The culture there is obviously very relaxed and more open so I just grew up seeing tattoo's everywhere and thought they looked good and were cool. It just was not a big deal to me, to get a tattoo. It wasn't me conforming to fit in, and it wasn't a sign of weakness (no peer pressure). It was just something I liked, kind of like some people drive certain cars and dress a certain way. Those too can tell alot about someone's personality. Now mind you, I wasn't even close to being a Christian and I definitely had no clue to what scripture said..... Do I wish I would have made better decisions on some of my tattoo's? Of course I do, and I wish I didn't have some of them. But I can't change that, just like we can't change some of the mistakes (sins) we've made in our past. We just have to repent, learn from them and move foward. I know there's ways to remove them, but I see that as a waste of money. Sure I could spend THOUSANDS of dollars removing them, or I could use that money to help people or organizations that actually could use the money for better purposes. I kind of think it's vain, to spend all that money on changing my outer appearance. God know's where my heart is. I just use my tattoo's as a reminder of who I was and where I've been to who I am now and how much has changed in my life.....

1Co 6:19 Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own?

Yes our body is a temple and doesn't belong to us. But isn't God love? What if I get a tattoo to honor the LOVE I have for my children or a beloved relative who passed away? Or what if I got some scripture put on me to remind me of my LOVE for God or to keep me strong if I was struggling with something? Like Myles said, at that time it was meant for those marking themselves to honor "false" God's.

We need to be careful not to be to LEGALISTIC. We are not "bound" to the law anymore.

"So, my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to Him who was raised from the dead in order that we might bear fruit to God"
"But no, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code." -Romans 7:4,6

Yes scripture says we are not to mark our bodies, but it also says God hates Sin and we are not to Sin. Are any of us sinless? Scripture also says not to love anything in this world. Has that convicted you enough to give up your TV or other worldly things? We can make things black and white, right and wrong very easily. None of us is perfect, there was only ONE who lived a perfect life. And He, Jesus, call's on us to live our lives with LOVE most of all..... Not live our lives according to the written law.

I'm not trying to shoot down anyone's view or come off as I'm right. I'm just giving you another view on the topic. And this is meant as a message of Love.

Oh and just a side note, if my parents told me not to do something or forbid me from something, that made me want to do it even more! haha It's not about showing our kids we are the boss or we rule the house, it's about educating them and leading them to Christ so they can make good decisions on their own. I used to hate when my parents said "BECAUSE I SAID SO!"......... LOL

It's about time you commented on this one...being the Tattoo guy!